An Example of the Genealogical Information in a Testimony to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes

In my last blog I mentioned that documents to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes contain a lot of genealogical information. Below is an example.

Department of the Interior,
Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes,
Muskogee, I. T., July 7th, 1902,

#6007

In the matter of the application of Turner Vick for the identification of himself and his three minor children, Jessie A., Josh, and Gertrude Vick, as Mississippi Choctaws.

No attorney.

Turner Vick, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Examination by the Commission,
Q. What is your name? A. Turner Vick.
Q. How old are you Mr. Vick? A. I was born September 8th, 1850.
Q. How much Choctaw blood have you? A. Well it’s supposed to be one-eighth.
Q. What is your post office address? A. Lynch, Texas.
Q. How long have you lived in Texas? A. Lived there ever since I was five years old, only what time I spent traveling about; I lived some in Arkansas and worked some in the Choctaw Nation three or four times for about two months at a time.
Q. Where were you born? A. Muhlenberg county, Kentucky.
Q. Is your father living? A. No sir.
Q. What was his name? A. Name was Henry Monroe; H. M. was his initials.
Q. Is your mother living? A. No sir.
Q. What was her name? Her name was Hulda Ann Young before she was married.
Q. Through which one of your parents do you get your Choctaw blood?
A. Father.
Q. How old would he be if he was living now? A. Why he died--- I can’t tell you exactly; I think he was born somewhere in 1812 or 1813; I aimed to bring the family record but forgot it. He was seventy-seven years old when he died and he died this coming October is five years ago; he was born March 16th; I remember that.
Q. Where was he born? A. I think in Hopkins county, Kentucky.
Q. Lived there in Kentucky all his life? A. Yes sir, Kentucky, and I think he made that his home until he moved when I was going on five years old; it was in ’55, the first day of January; we came to Texas the first day of January in ’55.
Q. He never lived in Mississippi? A. No sir, not that I know of.
Q. Through which of his parents did he get his Choctaw blood?
A. Through his Vick parents.

#2.

Q. What was his name? A. His name was Steven Vick; that was my grandfather.
Q. Do you know the year in which he was born? A. No sir.
Q. Did you ever see him? A. No sir; if I did I was too small; I can remember my grandmother when I was four years old.
Q. Do you know where Steven lived during his life-time?
A. My father taught me he came from Mississippi.
Q. Do you know what part? A. Not far from Vicksburg.
Q. Your father was never recognized in any manner or enrolled as a member of the Choctaw tribe of Indians in Indian Territory, was he? A. Not that I know of.
Q. Where your father and mother lawfully married? A. Yes sir.
Q. Have you any evidence of that fact with you? A. No sire; all the evidence I have they lived together for a long period of years; we have family records that shows when they was married and by who they was married.
Q. How many children were born to them? A. Seven; four boys and three girls.
Q. Well did they live together until your mother’s death? A. Yes sir.
It will be necessary that the Commission be furnished with proper evidence of the marriage of your mother. This evidence should be furnished within a period of ten days from to-day (sic) if possible.

By the applicant:

Now I want to say I couldn’t furnish testimony in that time for I have to go back to Kentucky for it, and it will require twenty-five or thirty days.

By the Commission:

Well if You (sic) cant (sic) get it here in ten days just send it as soon as you can. It may be that your case wont (sic) be decided.

Q. You are married are you Mr. Vick? A. Yes sir.
Q. Is your wife living? A. No sir, she’s dead.
Q. What was her name? Martha Jane Brown was her maiden name.
Q. Did she have any Choctaw blood? A. No sir.
Q. Were you married more than once? A. No sir.
Q. Was she? A. No sir.
Q. Have you any children living? A. Yes sir.
Q. How many? A. Two boys and seven girls; nine children.
Q. Are any of them of age? A. Yes sir.
Q. How many are of age? A. Lutitia, Willie, Henry, Dora, Clarissa, and Cora; they are all married except Clarissa; she’s twenty-one years old.
Q. How many have you at home with you now under age? I have three, yes sir.
Q. What are their names? A. Jessie A., girl.
Q. How old? A. She’s sixteen years old.
Q. Next one? A. Josh, boy.
Q. How old is Josh? A. He’s thirteen years old.

#3.

Q. Next? A. Gertrude, girl.
Q. How old? A. Eleven.
Q. These three children are living with you at this time are they?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Now give us the married names of your children who are married – your daughters who are married? A. First is Annie Lutitia Irons.
Q. Next one? A. Willie Frances Proctor is her full name.
Q. Next one? A. Next one is Dora Ella Proctor.
Q. Next one? A. Cora Lee Petty.
Q. Next one? A. The next one is a boy—George Henry Vick.
Q. Next one? A. There’s no more married ones.
Q. Clarissa is single? A. Rest of them is single; Clarissa is twenty-one years old and single.
Q. These married children are also the children of yourself and Martha Jane Vick? A. Yes sir.
Q. Where you married to Martha Jane Vick under a license? A. No sir, married in the state of Arkansas. Should I state when?
Q. Yes? (sic) A. Married in the state of Arkansas the third day of September, 1871, in Millcreek township, by Reverend Henry Carr, Baptist minister. I wrote to the County Clerk for the marriage certificate and he wrote back to me that it would cost sixty cents. I have sent that but I haven’t heard from it yet. I can get proof however that we was married, by having time to get that.
Q. Well, we give you a period of ten days from this date in which to offer proper evidence of the marriage of yourself and Martha Jane Vick; of course your marriage certificate would be the best evidence. This application is for yourself and three minor children; is that correct? A. Yes sir.
Q. Is your name or the name of any of these children to be found on any of the tribal rolls of the Choctaw Nation in Indian Territory? A. We never did enroll.
Q. Did you not make application to the Choctaw tribal authorities in Indian Territory, for yourself or any one of these children, to be admitted or enrolled as members of that tribe? A. None until the present time.
Q. We are not the tribal authorities; we are the United States authorities. (sic) Well, I never did make application.
Q. Did you in the year 1896 make application to this Commission for citizenship in the Choctaw Nation under the act of Congress approved June 10, 1896? A. 1896? No sir.
Q. Then neither you nor your children for whom you make application have ever been admitted to citizenship in the Choctaw Nation by the Choctaw tribal authorities, the Commission is the Five Civilized Tribes or the United States Court for the Indian Territory, have you? A. No sir.
Q. Have you ever made any application of any description before today for yourself or these children, for the purpose of establishing your rights as Choctaw Indians? A. No sir.
Q. Do you appear before the Commission at this time for the purpose of claiming rights in the Choctaw lands in Indian Territory, for yourself and these minor children, under article fourteen of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek, do you? A. Yes sir.

#4.

This treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek was entered into in the state of Mississippi on September 27, 1830, between the government of the United States and the Choctaw tribe of Indians. At the time this treaty was made the Choctaw lived in Mississippi and along the western edge of the state of Alabama. The object of the treaty was to secure the removal of these Indians from the country occupied by them in Mississippi and Alabama to a new country west of the Mississippi river, part of which is now occupied by the greater portion of the Choctaw tribe of Indians and the Chickasaws and is commonly known as the Choctaw-Chickasaw country in Indian Territory. At the time this treaty was made some of these Indians were unwilling to leave the old Nation and move out west, and for the benefit of those who preferred to remain there what is known as the fourteenth article was put into the treaty. That fourteenth article provided that upon certain conditions a Choctaw who preferred to remain in Mississippi and not move out to the new Nation might receive land back there from the government. It is as follows:

“Each Choctaw head of a family being desirous to remain and become a citizen of the states shall be permitted to do so, by signifying his intentionto (sic) the Agent within six months from the ratification of this treaty, and he or she shall thereupon be entitled to a reservation of one section of six hundred and forty acres of land, to be bounded by sectional lines of survey; in like manner shall be entitled to one half that quantity for each unmarried child which is living with him over ten years of age; and a quarter section to such child as may be under ten years of age, to adjoin the location of the parent. If they reside upon said lands intending to become citizens of the states for five years after the ratification of this treaty, in that case, a grant in fee simple shall issue; said reservation shall include the present improvement of the head of the family or a portion of it. Persons who claim under this article shall not lose the privilege of a Choctaw citizen but if they ever remove are entitled to any portion of the Choctaw annuity.”

Q. You understand that fourteenth article Mr. Vick? A. Why, I believe I do Judge.
Q. Did any of your ancestors live in the old Nation in Mississippi and Alabama in the year 1830 when this treaty was made?
A. That’s what I have been taught by my father.
Q. Well now your father was born in about 1815 you think?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Well now he must have been fifteen years old when this treaty was made, according to that? A. Yes sir.
Q. Well he never lived in Mississippi that you ever hear of?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Well he lived with his father until he was grown did he?
A. Why I suppose he did. I cant (sic) answer that question.
Q. Well now you don’t think it probable that your father or his father either were living in Mississippi in 1830 do you?
A. Don’t know that they was. His grandfather lived in Mississippi

#5

At that time; that’s what he has always taught me.
Q. Was your father’s grandfather living at the time of the birth of your father? A. I don’t know; I cant (sic) answer that question. He told me but I have forgotten it.
Q. Do you know whether any of your Choctaw ancestors within six months after this treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek was ratified, let the Agent of the government in Mississippi for the Choctaws know that they wanted to stay in Mississippi and become citizens of the states and take land? A. Well sir, I have been told that they did. We propose to introduce testimony if we have time to that effect before the Commission.
Q. How did you get your information on that point? A. We got it by a man writing to us.
Q. Who was he? A. He said he would furnish testimony to connect us.
Q. Who is he Mr. Vick? A. His name is Gardner.
Q. Where does he live? A. I couldn’t tell you.
Q. How did you happen to get in communication with him? A. My cousin met him.
Q. Where? A. Somewhere in the Territory.
Q. Do you know what this man’s occupation is? A. No sir.
Q. What did he tell you? A. He told us in making our application that we could furnish testimony—written testimony; to make it on that ground and furnish written evidence to identify us with the Choctaw tribe.
Q. Did you make any agreement with him to pay him? A. If he furnishes testimony.
Q. What were the terms of that agreement? A. He agreed to furnish it for one hundred dollars.
Q. Did he tell you how he expected to get that testimony?
A. He said it was a matter of record.
Q. You never heard of this man before your cousin met him? A. No sir.
Q. Which one of your cousins do you refer to? A. Luther F. Vick. I will tell you of the thing that caused me to have some faith; my grandfather’s father died in Mississippi in 1819; it is a matter of history because I wrote to exgovernor (sic) Lowery and he informed me to that effect; and I found a man by the name of Simmons that was born in Mississippi; well I want to say he was born there but he was there in an early day, and he told me that his recollection served him that the Vicks and Laflores were related; that one of the Vicks in an early day married one of the Laflores. This man Gardner states that he can connect us with the Laflores; that’s how it comes; of course if we don’t make proof it will be our fault.
Q. Now Mr. Vick do you know whether any of your people did in fact let this Agent for the government there in Mississippi in 1831 know that they wanted to stay there and take advantage of the provisions of the fourteenth article? A. Don’t know only just what was wrote to us.
Q. What Gardner wrote to you? A. Wrote to my cousin.
Q. Did he say he could prove that? A. Yes sir.
Q. What one of your ancestors did he say he could prove did so let

#6

the Agent of the government know that he wanted to stay in Mississippi and become a citizen of the states and take land?
A. Silas Vick, a relative of ours in Mississippi.
Q. What relation? A. He didn’t say what relation.
Q. To you? A. No sir.
Q. Did you ever hear of Silas Vick before this man mentioned him?
A. Not that I recollect it.
Q. You don’t know as a matter of fact that he is any relation to you? A. No sir, I don’t know that he is. I have written back there for a statement but don’t know whether I will get it or not.
Q. Do you know whether any of your people ever claimed or received any land there in Mississippi under this article?
A. I don’t know whether they did or not. I just have this letter from Exgovernor (sic) Lowry that my great-grandfather owned land there when he died in 1819.
Q. You don’t know whether any of your people in fact complied with the provisions of the fourteenth article do you? A. Not personally I don’t. I have been told so.
Q. The only source of information on that point is this man Gardner? A. Yes sir.
Q. You don’t know what authority he has for making that statement?
A. He said he had it from the United States government record.
Q. Do you know what record he referred to? A. No sir.

In accordance with the provisions of this fourteenth article of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek, the government of the United States directed an Agent in the state of Mississippi to register the names of such Choctaws as might desire to remain there and become citizens of the states and take land. The records of the government show that this Agent failed to register and report to the government the names of many Choctaws who did in fact let him know that they wanted to stay there and become citizens of the states and take land, and on this account the government at its public land sales in Mississippi in many instances sold land upon which Choctaws lived and had improvements and which they supposed they would receive under the fourteenth article of the treaty. This caused a great deal of complaint among the Indians and the matter was finally brought to the attention of Congress and Congress passed certain acts between the years 1837 and 1842 providing for the appointment of Commissioners whose duty it should be to go down to Mississippi and hear the cases of Choctaws who claimed that they had complied in all respects with the provisions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek but that their land had been sold by the government. These Commissioners were duly appointed by the President of the United States and they went down to Mississippi between the years 1837 and 1845 and heard a great many of those Choctaw cases.

Q. Did any of your ancestors appear before any of these Commissioners and attempt to establish their rights under the fourteenth article of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek? A. Only from what that man states is all.
Q. Did he make that statement to you? A. Yes sir.

#7

Q. What one of your ancestors did he say appeared before these Commissioners? A. He said---well, I don’t remember---he said that his Silas was one of them; told several names.
Q. Did Silas Vick have a Choctaw name? A. I don’t know sir whether he did or not.
Q. You know nothing whatever about this man? A. Not personally.

An act of Congress approved August 23, 1842, provided that in case it should be finally decided that a Choctaw had compliedin (sic) all respects with the provisions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek but his land had been taken by the government and sold, he should be entitled to select in the place of the land so sold by the government, land some place else in Mississippi; or in Alabama, Louisiana or Arkansas, from vacant government land, and that a certificate should be given him to that effect. These certificates were called scrip.

Q. Did any of your ancestors ever get any of this scrip from the government under this act of Congress? A. Not that I know of personally.
Q. Do you know whether any of your people ever received any benefits whatever under his fourteenth article? A. Not that I know of personally. I have no personal knowledge of it.
Q. Do you know whether any of your people were recognized members of the tribe in 1830, do you? A. Not personally.
Q. All you know is what this man Gardner has told you about it?
A. That and what others have stated that seemed to know something about the history. I am just speaking now of what I know myself.
Q. Do you know of any written evidence of any kind which would prove or tend to prove that any of your ancestors ever did comply or attempt to comply with the provisions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek or ever received any benefits thereunder (sic)? A. This man Gardner proposes to furnish it.
Q. You don’t know of your own knowledge of any such evidence?
A. He told me to make application for time in which to establish that fact and he would furnish testimony.
Q. Is he a lawyer? A. I don’t know sir.
Q. You have no written evidence to offer at this time? A. No sir.
Q. Or any witnesses? A. No sir.

You will be allowed a period of ten days in which to submit proper written evidence in this case, or in which to introduce witnesses to testify in your behalf.

By the applicant:

I would like to have as much time as you could grant me. I have a son and daughter that’s not here, but they want to come and enroll.

By the Commission

They can come as soon as they desire; they should

#8

come at the earliest date possible.

Q. Are there any further statements you want to make? A. No sir.
Q. You don’t speak or understand the Choctaw language? A. No sir.
Q. Have you any brothers living? A. Brothers living? No sir.
Q. Sisters? A. Got two sisters living.
Q. What are their names? A. One her given name is Margaret A. M. Morris.
Q. Next one? A. Susan Kelly.
Q. Have they been before the Commission? A. No sir, one of them is here to-day (sic).
Q. Which one? A. Susan.
Q. Have you any brothers dead who left children? A. Yes sir.
Q. How many? A. I have one.
Q. What was your brother’s name? A. Name was Young L. Vick.
Q. How many of his children are living? A. I don’t know whether any of them is living or not; lost trace of them.
Q. Do you know their names? A. Yes sir, I can give their names.
Q. Give them to us? A. One of them is named---the oldest one is named Nettie.
Q. Next one? A. Fannie.
Q. Next one? A. Frank, boy.
Q. That all? A. Jim, Robert, and Maud.
Q. Next? A Stella, that’s all.
Q. Have any of them been before the Commission? A. Not that I know of sir.
Q. Now have you any sisters dead who left children? A. Yes sir.
Q. How many? A. One.
Q. What was her name? A. Hulda Ann Manning.
Q. How many of her children are living now? A. She had three.
Q. What are their names? A. Col, he’s a boy.
Q. Next one? A. Mary.
Q. Next one? A. Dora.
Q. Have they been before the Commission? A. No sir.

Special reference is hereby made to M C R 5879, Luther F. Vick, the applicants in this case and the applicants in that case being the descendants of the same common Choctaw ancestor.
The records in the possession of the Commission containing the names of persons who complied or attempted to comply with the previsions of that fourteenth article of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek, or received any benefits thereunder (sic), have been carefully examined and the names of none of the ancestors of this applicant are found thereon.
This applicant has the appearance of being a white man; shows no indications of being possessed of Indian blood; his hair is rather inclined to be dark; has brown eyes; dark complexion; he doesn’t speak or understand the Choctaw language and has no knowledge of the compliance on the part of any of his ancestors with the provisions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek.

#9

Albert G. McMillan, being first duly sworn, states that as stenographer to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes he reported the proceedings had in the above entitled cause on the 7th day of July, 1902, and that the above and foregoing is a full, true and correct transcription of his stenographic notes taken in said cause on said date.
Albert G. McMillan

Subscribed and sworn before me this 21st day of July, 1902.
Guy L. V. Emerson
Notary Public