Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants is the definitive work on the first five generations of the Joseph Vick family. John D. Beatty and Di Ann Vick did a wonderful job researching Joseph Vick and his descendants and translating their research into a well-documented family history. Unfortunately, even with the most careful research some errors are bound to happen. When discussing Patience3 (Joseph2, Joseph1) on page 25 the book says “Patience predeceased her father. Her husband, Moses, left no probate record and no heirs are mentioned in the Guardianship bonds which suggests they died without issue.” Joseph2 died in Southampton County, VA, before 14 Jun 1770, according to page 21.
Harold Joyner, a descendant of Patience3 pointed out to me that Patience appears in several sources after her father died. Wake County, North Carolina County Court Minutes 1787 thru 1792 Book II, (Weynette Parks Haun, Durham, NC: The Author, 1979) says on page 13 “Patience Joyner administratrix (sic) of Moses Joyner decd. came into Court and exhibited account against the orphans of said Moses towit, (sic) Fereby Mary, Nancy, Amy, & Amos JOINER amounting to L24 each, which the Court allow her provided the several accounts does not exceed the profits of their respective Estates, ordered that said account be Recorded.”1 Harold sent me a transcription of the “Account of the Sales of the Estate of Moses Joiner, decd. Septr. 25th 1783.”
Harold also told me Moses and Patience had the following children: 1. Drewery (Drury), b. 1765; 2. Amy; 3. Benjamin; 4. Fereby; 5. Jeminia; 6. Mary, m. Joseph McGee 11 May 1790 in Wake Co., NC; 7. Nancy, m. Jesse Lawrence 22 Mar 1800 in Wake Co., NC.; 8. Nathaniel; 9. Amos C. 1777-1859, m. Easter Jent/Gent 1 Jan 1802 in Wake Co., NC.
Harold is also a member of our Vick and Allied Families DNA project. He shares matching DNA segments with other Joseph Vick descendants in the project.
We are publishing corrections to the book in The Vick Family Newsletter. If anyone else has a correction, please let me know.
Showing posts with label Joseph Vick of Lower Parish. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Joseph Vick of Lower Parish. Show all posts
Thursday, February 4, 2010
Wednesday, February 3, 2010
Who Were James J. Vick’s Parents?
One of the things I like to do each day is check queries about Vick ancestry. It is nice to help people trace their Vick line, and I usually learn something new in the process. A couple of days ago a lady contacted me and ask if I knew the names of her grandmother Selma Vick’s parents. The lady told me Selma’s husband was Zadock Cox. I was able to find in the North Carolina Death Collection, 1908-2004, that Selma was born on 29 Apr 1904, in NC, and she died on 12 Oct 1982, in Tarboro, Edgecombe Co., NC.
With the death record information I was then able to find Selma and her parent’s, Augustus R. and Mollie [ ] Vick (one source said Mollie’s maiden name was Price), in census records. From there I found Selma’s Vick grandparents’ names (James J. and Mary Landing Vick). I have yet to find James J. Vick’s parents’ names.
If a person is a descendant of Joseph Vick of Isle of Wight County, Virginia, and knows his or her Vick ancestor’s name and a few details like date and place of birth or death, I can usually figure out the Vick line. Many times there is a family tree on Ancestry.com, an article in The Vick Family Newsletter, or information on a website that has enough information to get the line to the point where I can tie it into Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants. The book will then get the line all the way back to Joseph the immigrant.
Unfortunately, I am stuck for the moment with James J. Does anyone know James J. Vick’s parents’ names? James J. can be found on the 1850 U.S. Census of Edgecombe Co., NC, living near Reddin Vick’s widow and children and near Burton C. Vick.
Reddin’s line was Reddin6, ?Robert5, Robert4, ?Isaac3, William2, Joseph1. Burton’s line was Burton7, ?Frederick6, ?Robert5, Robert4, ?Isaac3, William2, Joseph1. Perhaps James J. was the son of Reddin6 or Frederick6 given the proximity to probable descendants of Robert5 at the time of the 1850 census. A Y-DNA test of a patrilineal male Vick descendant of James J. could help sort this question out.
With the death record information I was then able to find Selma and her parent’s, Augustus R. and Mollie [ ] Vick (one source said Mollie’s maiden name was Price), in census records. From there I found Selma’s Vick grandparents’ names (James J. and Mary Landing Vick). I have yet to find James J. Vick’s parents’ names.
If a person is a descendant of Joseph Vick of Isle of Wight County, Virginia, and knows his or her Vick ancestor’s name and a few details like date and place of birth or death, I can usually figure out the Vick line. Many times there is a family tree on Ancestry.com, an article in The Vick Family Newsletter, or information on a website that has enough information to get the line to the point where I can tie it into Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants. The book will then get the line all the way back to Joseph the immigrant.
Unfortunately, I am stuck for the moment with James J. Does anyone know James J. Vick’s parents’ names? James J. can be found on the 1850 U.S. Census of Edgecombe Co., NC, living near Reddin Vick’s widow and children and near Burton C. Vick.
Reddin’s line was Reddin6, ?Robert5, Robert4, ?Isaac3, William2, Joseph1. Burton’s line was Burton7, ?Frederick6, ?Robert5, Robert4, ?Isaac3, William2, Joseph1. Perhaps James J. was the son of Reddin6 or Frederick6 given the proximity to probable descendants of Robert5 at the time of the 1850 census. A Y-DNA test of a patrilineal male Vick descendant of James J. could help sort this question out.
Friday, January 22, 2010
Who Was My Sixth Great Grandmother Vick?
As I said in my blog “Is There Any Hope I Might Find the Missing Names of My Female Ancestors in My Vick Line?” I know my sixth great grandfather Vick was William, and he was the son of Joseph the immigrant. From page 26 of Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants, I know William’s wife was “Elizabeth.”
What I don’t know is Elizabeth’s maiden surname. The book says “Some time before 1730, William married ELIZABETH [ ]. Col. Arthur {in his book Vick} commented that the belief among her descendants that she was a Newitt was based largely on that name’s use as a given name in succeeding generations. He speculated that she may have been a sister or, more likely, a niece of the William Newitt who left a will in Isle of Wight County in 1713.”
Two descendants of William2 who have been tested as part of our Vick and Allied Families DNA project at 23andMe match Katherine Hope Borges. A third descendant of William2 matches Katherine’s uncle. Katherine said she has no Vick’s in her pedigree but she does have four surnames that go back to Isle of Wight Co., VA. Those surnames are Avent, Fuller, Littleton, and Spivey.
Looking at the index to the Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants, there are references to Avant/Avent and Spivey, but they aren’t in the right line or timeframe to have a direct connection to Elizabeth. If Elizabeth was a niece of William Newitt, perhaps I can find a connection with one of the surnames Katherine has in her pedigree.
I don’t seem to be running out of things to research. Maybe we will get lucky and find other matches in common with Katherine that might shed some more light on Elizabeth’s ancestry.
What I don’t know is Elizabeth’s maiden surname. The book says “Some time before 1730, William married ELIZABETH [ ]. Col. Arthur {in his book Vick} commented that the belief among her descendants that she was a Newitt was based largely on that name’s use as a given name in succeeding generations. He speculated that she may have been a sister or, more likely, a niece of the William Newitt who left a will in Isle of Wight County in 1713.”
Two descendants of William2 who have been tested as part of our Vick and Allied Families DNA project at 23andMe match Katherine Hope Borges. A third descendant of William2 matches Katherine’s uncle. Katherine said she has no Vick’s in her pedigree but she does have four surnames that go back to Isle of Wight Co., VA. Those surnames are Avent, Fuller, Littleton, and Spivey.
Looking at the index to the Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants, there are references to Avant/Avent and Spivey, but they aren’t in the right line or timeframe to have a direct connection to Elizabeth. If Elizabeth was a niece of William Newitt, perhaps I can find a connection with one of the surnames Katherine has in her pedigree.
I don’t seem to be running out of things to research. Maybe we will get lucky and find other matches in common with Katherine that might shed some more light on Elizabeth’s ancestry.
Thursday, January 21, 2010
Was My Fifth Great Grandmother Mary Coleman?
In my blog yesterday (“Is There Any Hope I Might Find the Missing Names of My Female Ancestors in My Vick Line?”), I said that I would discuss some of the clues I am finding using 23andMe’s Relative Finder to help identify the missing names of females in my pedigree. My fifth great grandmother in my Vick line is one of those elusive females. As I mentioned yesterday, page 90 of Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants, says she may have been Mary Coleman of Anson County, North Carolina. Mary [ ] Vick witnessed property records involving Colemans in the 1770’s in Anson Co.
Interestingly, my second highest match in Relative Finder is a man whose surname is Coleman. This match may be unrelated to my missing fifth great grandmother, but it may also be a significant clue. The match seems worth pursuing. He didn’t find any of my surnames in his pedigree.
My match’s Coleman ancestor came to America from Ireland in the 1880s. I don’t know when the Anson Co., NC, Colemans’ ancestor came to America, but it had to be before the 1772. I also don’t even know if the ancestor of the Anson Co. Colemans was Irish.
We would both have to extend our research to see if we have a shared Coleman ancestor in Ireland. I know nothing about Irish records, and I doubt I could even trace the Anson Co. Coleman’s back far enough to make a connection (if there is one). I do know that my match has paternal haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2f . There are Colemans in that project who have paternal haplogroup R1b1b2a1a. They may need a little more testing to see if they are R1b1b2a1a2f (my matching Coleman’s haplogroup). Since this is such a common haplogroup, it looks like my match would need the traditional Y-DNA genealogical test to learn much more from the Y-DNA project members’ results.
Maybe I will get lucky and have other matches with Coleman descendants. I will also try to find out if any of the other Vicks who have been tested at 23andMe and who share this line have matches with Coleman descendants. This reminds me of fishing. I have a lot of lines in the water, and I must wait patiently for the big tug. Maybe another researcher has a theory about who this Mary was.
Tomorrow, I will discuss another clue from Relative Finder about yet another female Vick line ancestor whose name I don’t know.
Interestingly, my second highest match in Relative Finder is a man whose surname is Coleman. This match may be unrelated to my missing fifth great grandmother, but it may also be a significant clue. The match seems worth pursuing. He didn’t find any of my surnames in his pedigree.
My match’s Coleman ancestor came to America from Ireland in the 1880s. I don’t know when the Anson Co., NC, Colemans’ ancestor came to America, but it had to be before the 1772. I also don’t even know if the ancestor of the Anson Co. Colemans was Irish.
We would both have to extend our research to see if we have a shared Coleman ancestor in Ireland. I know nothing about Irish records, and I doubt I could even trace the Anson Co. Coleman’s back far enough to make a connection (if there is one). I do know that my match has paternal haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2f . There are Colemans in that project who have paternal haplogroup R1b1b2a1a. They may need a little more testing to see if they are R1b1b2a1a2f (my matching Coleman’s haplogroup). Since this is such a common haplogroup, it looks like my match would need the traditional Y-DNA genealogical test to learn much more from the Y-DNA project members’ results.
Maybe I will get lucky and have other matches with Coleman descendants. I will also try to find out if any of the other Vicks who have been tested at 23andMe and who share this line have matches with Coleman descendants. This reminds me of fishing. I have a lot of lines in the water, and I must wait patiently for the big tug. Maybe another researcher has a theory about who this Mary was.
Tomorrow, I will discuss another clue from Relative Finder about yet another female Vick line ancestor whose name I don’t know.
Wednesday, January 20, 2010
Is There Any Hope I Might Find the Missing Names of My Female Ancestors in My Vick Line?
In my first blog I mentioned how through our VICK Y-DNA Surname Project I was able to figure out which Jacob4 was my ancestor. The VICK Y-DNA Surname Project focuses like a laser on the patrilineal VICK line, and the findings have been very helpful to those of us who are trying to reconstruct Vick family trees. I also mentioned in my blog “Fill in Your Family Tree” that 23andMe’s Relative Finder looks at the DNA we inherited from all of our ancestors. Unlike the laser beam focus of the traditional genetic genealogy Y-DNA test, 23andMe casts a wide net in the search for ancestors.
While I have identified all of my Vick male ancestors through the immigrant Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight Co., VA, I have not been so fortunate with the females in my line. I have identified my female ancestors in my Vick line through my third great grandmother Susannah MERCER. However, while I solved the mystery of who my fourth great grandfather, Jacob4, was, I only know my fourth great grandmother’s first name was “probably” Mary. In Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants, John D. Beatty and Di Ann Vick said on page 242, “Jacob probably married MARY [ ] not long after completing his militia service.”
While I know my fourth great grandfather Jacob4’s father was Isaac3, again, I don’t know the name of my fifth great grandmother. Turning to the book on page 90 it says “Nothing is known of Isaac’s wife or wives. He may have married [?Mary Coleman] of Anson County.”
One again, I know my sixth great grandfather was William2, but I only know his wife was “Elizabeth” (see page 26 of the book). The pattern repeats itself with my seventh great grandfather Joseph1. There is much speculation and no proof as to who he married.
Fortunately, some clues are beginning to emerge on my 23andMe Relative Finder match list. Tomorrow I will discuss some of those clues.
While I have identified all of my Vick male ancestors through the immigrant Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight Co., VA, I have not been so fortunate with the females in my line. I have identified my female ancestors in my Vick line through my third great grandmother Susannah MERCER. However, while I solved the mystery of who my fourth great grandfather, Jacob4, was, I only know my fourth great grandmother’s first name was “probably” Mary. In Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants, John D. Beatty and Di Ann Vick said on page 242, “Jacob probably married MARY [ ] not long after completing his militia service.”
While I know my fourth great grandfather Jacob4’s father was Isaac3, again, I don’t know the name of my fifth great grandmother. Turning to the book on page 90 it says “Nothing is known of Isaac’s wife or wives. He may have married [?Mary Coleman] of Anson County.”
One again, I know my sixth great grandfather was William2, but I only know his wife was “Elizabeth” (see page 26 of the book). The pattern repeats itself with my seventh great grandfather Joseph1. There is much speculation and no proof as to who he married.
Fortunately, some clues are beginning to emerge on my 23andMe Relative Finder match list. Tomorrow I will discuss some of those clues.
Thursday, January 14, 2010
How Many VICK Lines Are There In Muhlenberg County, Kentucky?
In 2000, Muhlenberg Co., KY, had a population of almost 32,000 people according to the U.S. Census. Within that population were many descendants of Robert and William VICK two of the five sons of Joseph VICK of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight Co., VA. William’s great grandsons Isaiah and Stephen VICK were the first VICKs to settle in Muhlenberg Co. They were from Dobbs Co., NC., but they had stayed for awhile in Madison Co., KY, prior to moving on to Muhlenberg Co. Stephen last shows up in the Madison Co., KY tax list for 1814, and he first shows up in the Muhlenberg Co. tax list for 1816. Isaiah didn’t leave any descendants in Muhlenberg Co. (he wasn’t there very long), but Stephen still has many descendants there.
William Robert VICK, a second great grandson of Joseph’s son Robert was in Muhlenberg Co. by the time of the 1880 U.S. census. He also still has many descendants living in Muhlenberg Co.
Until last August I assumed that all of the VICKs in Muhlenberg Co. were descendants of either Stephen or William Robert. I had done quite a bit of research on Stephen and his descendants. When I encountered a record of a VICK in Muhlenberg Co. who I knew wasn’t one of Stephen’s descendants I assumed that person was one of William Robert’s descendants. That assumption changed with the realization that the 1910 U.S. census of Muhlenberg Co. listed a Joe VICK who did not appear to be a descendant of either Stephen or William Robert.
With help from the wife of a descendant of Joe, I reached the conclusion that he was Joseph Sire Jackson VICK, born about May 1874. The question then became what was his line? The 1910 census lists his wife as Sarah (she was Sarah B. WILLIAMS). A daughter “Ether” (age 10), and two sons, Herbert (age 8) and Conway (age 6), were in the household. Joe was on the 1900 U.S. Census of Todd Co., KY, along with his wife Eliza J. (DUKES) and their daughter Eather P. (age 1). Eather is the link between the two census records. Eliza J. was Joseph Sire Jackson’s first wife, and Sarah B. was his second wife. Unfortunately, there is no surviving U.S. census record for 1890, but Joe appears to be the one listed in the household of B.B. VICK in Trigg Co., KY, in 1880.
B.B. VICK is Benjamin B. VICK, born about 1830 in TN according to the 1880 census. He married Amanda (?Amelia) GEORGE on 17 Dec 1857 in Stewart Co., TN. According to page 388 of Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants, Benjamin’s line was Benjamin6, William5, Robert4, Nathan3, Robert2, Joseph1. In Vick, Robert Son of the Immigrant Joseph Vick: An Account of Some of His Descendants, Dr. James A. VICK placed Benjamin as the son of Josiah S.6 (William5, Robert4, Nathan3, Robert2, Joseph1).
While Dr. VICK believed Benjamin was Josiah S. VICK’s son, John BEATTY and Di Ann VICK concluded Benjamin was Josiah S.’s brother. John and Di Ann used the fact that Benjamin was in Clarissa (PAGE) VICK’s household at the time of the 1850 U.S. census of Stewart Co., TN, to conclude she was his mother. Clarissa was the wife of William5 (who had died before the 1850 census).
Perhaps Dr. VICK believed Benjamin was Josiah S.’s brother because Benjamin was born about 1836 and Josiah S. was born in 1814. Census records seem to point to Benjamin being born around 1830 which would make it unlikely Benjamin was Josiah S.’s son. Perhaps another researcher has records which can confirm who Benjamin’s father was.
Either way, I know now that there was at least one VICK line in Muhlenberg County, Kentucky, that I had not identified as being there. Given the mobility of today’s population, perhaps there is even another VICK line there that I haven’t found.
William Robert VICK, a second great grandson of Joseph’s son Robert was in Muhlenberg Co. by the time of the 1880 U.S. census. He also still has many descendants living in Muhlenberg Co.
Until last August I assumed that all of the VICKs in Muhlenberg Co. were descendants of either Stephen or William Robert. I had done quite a bit of research on Stephen and his descendants. When I encountered a record of a VICK in Muhlenberg Co. who I knew wasn’t one of Stephen’s descendants I assumed that person was one of William Robert’s descendants. That assumption changed with the realization that the 1910 U.S. census of Muhlenberg Co. listed a Joe VICK who did not appear to be a descendant of either Stephen or William Robert.
With help from the wife of a descendant of Joe, I reached the conclusion that he was Joseph Sire Jackson VICK, born about May 1874. The question then became what was his line? The 1910 census lists his wife as Sarah (she was Sarah B. WILLIAMS). A daughter “Ether” (age 10), and two sons, Herbert (age 8) and Conway (age 6), were in the household. Joe was on the 1900 U.S. Census of Todd Co., KY, along with his wife Eliza J. (DUKES) and their daughter Eather P. (age 1). Eather is the link between the two census records. Eliza J. was Joseph Sire Jackson’s first wife, and Sarah B. was his second wife. Unfortunately, there is no surviving U.S. census record for 1890, but Joe appears to be the one listed in the household of B.B. VICK in Trigg Co., KY, in 1880.
B.B. VICK is Benjamin B. VICK, born about 1830 in TN according to the 1880 census. He married Amanda (?Amelia) GEORGE on 17 Dec 1857 in Stewart Co., TN. According to page 388 of Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants, Benjamin’s line was Benjamin6, William5, Robert4, Nathan3, Robert2, Joseph1. In Vick, Robert Son of the Immigrant Joseph Vick: An Account of Some of His Descendants, Dr. James A. VICK placed Benjamin as the son of Josiah S.6 (William5, Robert4, Nathan3, Robert2, Joseph1).
While Dr. VICK believed Benjamin was Josiah S. VICK’s son, John BEATTY and Di Ann VICK concluded Benjamin was Josiah S.’s brother. John and Di Ann used the fact that Benjamin was in Clarissa (PAGE) VICK’s household at the time of the 1850 U.S. census of Stewart Co., TN, to conclude she was his mother. Clarissa was the wife of William5 (who had died before the 1850 census).
Perhaps Dr. VICK believed Benjamin was Josiah S.’s brother because Benjamin was born about 1836 and Josiah S. was born in 1814. Census records seem to point to Benjamin being born around 1830 which would make it unlikely Benjamin was Josiah S.’s son. Perhaps another researcher has records which can confirm who Benjamin’s father was.
Either way, I know now that there was at least one VICK line in Muhlenberg County, Kentucky, that I had not identified as being there. Given the mobility of today’s population, perhaps there is even another VICK line there that I haven’t found.
Tuesday, December 29, 2009
The Passing of Di Ann Vick
Di Ann Vick, one of the leading researchers of Vick family history and long time member of the Board of Directors of the Joseph Vick Family of America died on December 13, 2009, at the age of 72. Di Ann was co-author of Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants. Starting with the April 1993 issue of The Vick Family Newsletter she became its publisher. Then in July 1993 she became the co-editor of the newsletter. Finally, from January 1997 until May 2008, Di Ann was the editor of the newsletter. Di Ann was also the administrator of the Vick RootsWeb surname mail list since December 2002.
Her parents were Walter and Effie (Beckom) Vick. Di Ann was born on June 20, 1937, in Jefferson Co., TX, and she died in Philadelphia, PA. She was not married and has no descendants.
She will be missed greatly by those who are interested in Vick family history and the Joseph Vick Family of America.
Her parents were Walter and Effie (Beckom) Vick. Di Ann was born on June 20, 1937, in Jefferson Co., TX, and she died in Philadelphia, PA. She was not married and has no descendants.
She will be missed greatly by those who are interested in Vick family history and the Joseph Vick Family of America.
Tuesday, December 15, 2009
Women Can Now Use Their DNA Test Results in Surname Projects
We have about 50 people who have been tested in our 23andMe VICK and Allied Families DNA Project, and 21 of them are women. Thirty-two of our project members are descendants of Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight Co., VA. Of the 32, 14 are women.Some of these women are finding matches with other descendants of Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight Co., VA. The screenshot above shows a portion of Viola Potter’s 23andMe Relative Finder match list. Relative Finder predicted Viola Potter and Faye Paolino were 5th cousins with a range of 3rd to 8th cousin. Viola and Faye compared their pedigrees, and Vick is their only shared surname. They are 7th cousins one time removed, so the prediction is in the range.
We have just begun to collect results from project members, but Faye and Viola are not alone as other female project members are also reporting matches with other project members. Once we collect all the results, these women’s matches will be very helpful in our efforts to reconstruct our Vick family trees.
The Relative Finder Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) state that the odds of two people matching who are as distantly related as Viola and Faye are less than five percent. Fortunately, we have enough project members that we are finding matches even though the average project member is not closely related to the other project members. Of course, we are also benefiting from what we learn from matches with non-project members.
Getting all the data and analyzing it will be a lot of fun. Since new people are ordering 23andMe tests every day we will continue to get new results which help us learn even more about our Vick family history.
Sunday, December 13, 2009
We Are Starting to Weave Together Our 23andMe Vick and Allied Families DNA Project Results with Results from Our Vick Y-DNA Surname Project
We have about 50 men and women who have tested at 23andMe through our Vick and Allied Families DNA Project. 23andMe tests single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) from all 23 pairs of our chromosomes and our mitochondrial DNA. Twelve of the men in our 23andMe project are also members of our Vick Y-DNA Surname Project. The members of our Y-DNA surname project have had Y-DNA short tandem repeat (STR) tests. These Y-STR tests are the “gold standard” for those who want to explore just their patrilineal line (i.e. their father’s, father’s…line). Eleven of the men who are in both projects match the Y-DNA signature of Joseph Vick of Isle of Wight Co., VA. Joseph was born about 1640-1650. The twelfth may be descended from a Vick female.
To understand one-way we might use the 23andMe data in reconstructing our Vick family tree, a few of us have begun to share screenshots of our Relative Finder match lists and our Family Inheritance screens. Ralph Lewis Vick is one of the men who had both types of testing. Ralph’s Y-STR results matched the Y-STR signature of Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight Co., VA.
Jesse Mayfield is Ralph’s second cousin. Their most recent common ancestors are Benjamin Henry Vick and his wife Mary Ann Elizabeth Turner. Jesse has also been Y-STR tested. However, since Jesse is not a patrilineal descendant of his Vick ancestor he cannot use his Y-STR results to support his VICK ancestry. His Y-DNA came from his father who is not a Vick descendant. Both Ralph and Jesse have been tested by 23andMe. Using their SNP results, 23andMe’s Relative Finder correctly predicted that Ralph and Jesse were second cousins.
Because of their match at 23andMe we have strong support that Jesse’s pedigree is correct and that he is also a descendant of Joseph Vick. Before 23andMe’s Relative Finder, Jesse could only ask his closest male VICK cousin to take a Y-STR test and then argue that his cousin’s results should also be extended to him. Now because of Relative Finder Jesse can show that his second cousin is his second cousin and that Jesse’s own DNA supports his Vick ancestry.
I love the way results from the two projects help us in our efforts to reconstruct our Vick family tree. I cannot wait to apply this technique to other non-patrilineal Vick close cousins of other men who have or will test in both projects.
To understand one-way we might use the 23andMe data in reconstructing our Vick family tree, a few of us have begun to share screenshots of our Relative Finder match lists and our Family Inheritance screens. Ralph Lewis Vick is one of the men who had both types of testing. Ralph’s Y-STR results matched the Y-STR signature of Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight Co., VA.
Jesse Mayfield is Ralph’s second cousin. Their most recent common ancestors are Benjamin Henry Vick and his wife Mary Ann Elizabeth Turner. Jesse has also been Y-STR tested. However, since Jesse is not a patrilineal descendant of his Vick ancestor he cannot use his Y-STR results to support his VICK ancestry. His Y-DNA came from his father who is not a Vick descendant. Both Ralph and Jesse have been tested by 23andMe. Using their SNP results, 23andMe’s Relative Finder correctly predicted that Ralph and Jesse were second cousins.
Because of their match at 23andMe we have strong support that Jesse’s pedigree is correct and that he is also a descendant of Joseph Vick. Before 23andMe’s Relative Finder, Jesse could only ask his closest male VICK cousin to take a Y-STR test and then argue that his cousin’s results should also be extended to him. Now because of Relative Finder Jesse can show that his second cousin is his second cousin and that Jesse’s own DNA supports his Vick ancestry.
I love the way results from the two projects help us in our efforts to reconstruct our Vick family tree. I cannot wait to apply this technique to other non-patrilineal Vick close cousins of other men who have or will test in both projects.
Wednesday, December 9, 2009
23andMe's Relative Finder Helps Us Find Interesting Things About Our Shared Ancestry
In our VICK and Allied Families DNA Project at 23andMe our DNA helps us learn about more than just our Vick ancestry. 23andMe offers us the opportunity to use a suite of tools to explore our connections to all our cousins that Relative Finder identifies in the 23andMe database (and that list is growing).
One of the tools is Ancestry Painting. Ancestry Painting shows us what percent of our DNA can be traced to three geographic origins: Europe, Asia, and Africa. For Americans, Asian may mean Native American, since Native Americans came to North America from Asia.
By looking at our Ancestry Paintings we learned my mother and my wife each have an African segment. My wife’s segment is on chromosome 6 while my mother’s segment is across the centromere on chromosome 12. The first screenshot above shows my wife’s African segment and the second one shows my mother’s African segment. At first I thought these segments were artifacts that perhaps only indicated the segments had not been found commonly in European populations.
Then 23andMe’s Relative Finder said my mother and my wife matched the same man. As the third screenshot shows, he had seven African stretches in his Ancestry Painting (about one percent African). Finding this match made me think my wife and my mother had a more recent common ancestor who probably had an African American ancestor. Since both my wife’s and my mother’s roots in America are deep, I thought there might be some shared ancestry from a slave. Unfortunately, I have not been able to talk to the man both my mother and wife match to find out what he knows about his ancestry.
In the early 1990’s I went with my mother to visit her mother’s cousin. My mother mentioned to him that I was collecting family history information on my father’s side, and the man said we had a very interesting family history on my mother’s side also. He could not read or write (although he ran a successful business), but from his sharp memory he told me what he knew about our ancestry. What he said about one line in particular stuck in my mind. It was his patrilineal line the GRAYs. He explained that the Grays were really Grahams and that my mother’s great grandfather, James T. Gray, changed the family surname when he relocated from Union Co., KY, to Hancock Co., KY (I have found records which verify his statement). In tracing the line he told me he had been able to learn that my mother’s second great grandfather Isaac Jasper Graham had married an Elizabeth Collins. He said she was from the Cumberland Gap, and he recalled Newman Ridge being mentioned in connection with her. That was as far back as he had been able to go with the line.
Last week, my mother, my daughter, and I all matched the same lady. This lady has about 35 African segments (about seven percent African ancestry) and about 21 “Asian” (likely American Indian) segments which is about two percent “Asian” ancestry (see the fourth screenshot).
I called our new match and she told me that her Collins line had intermarried with the Goins family, and that her grandfather said the Goins line was African American. Looking on sites with information about Melungeon ancestry, I see Collins, Graham, and Goins are all surnames found in Melungeon histories. I also learned that Newman Ridge is in Hancock Co., TN (not to be confused with Hancock Co., KY).
I do not think anyone in our families (on either side) would have believed we could have an African segment and no one would believe we could have Melungeon ancestry. I doubt anyone in our family would know what Melungeon is.
From talking to the woman I learned there are two possibilities for who our Elizabeth was. One of the Elizabeth’s would have been too young to be ours, so that leaves the second one. Thanks to 23andMe’s Relative Finder, with more research I should be able to document the source of my mother's African segment. We will have learned something new about our ancestry from our DNA.
Next, I have to figure out how my wife’s family ties in. Finding people who share a common ancestor with both my mother and my wife is very interesting. Knowing the common ancestry appears to be Melungeon ancestry will really generate some conversation at the next family reunion.
The 4th cousin of our match is awaiting her 23andMe results. I hope she matches at least one person in my family and the man my wife and mother match. It would be good to get another link. I suspect as the database grows at 23andMe, and especially if they provide project management tools, we will be able to answer many family history questions (and discover many new things about our shared ancestry).
One of the tools is Ancestry Painting. Ancestry Painting shows us what percent of our DNA can be traced to three geographic origins: Europe, Asia, and Africa. For Americans, Asian may mean Native American, since Native Americans came to North America from Asia.
By looking at our Ancestry Paintings we learned my mother and my wife each have an African segment. My wife’s segment is on chromosome 6 while my mother’s segment is across the centromere on chromosome 12. The first screenshot above shows my wife’s African segment and the second one shows my mother’s African segment. At first I thought these segments were artifacts that perhaps only indicated the segments had not been found commonly in European populations.
Then 23andMe’s Relative Finder said my mother and my wife matched the same man. As the third screenshot shows, he had seven African stretches in his Ancestry Painting (about one percent African). Finding this match made me think my wife and my mother had a more recent common ancestor who probably had an African American ancestor. Since both my wife’s and my mother’s roots in America are deep, I thought there might be some shared ancestry from a slave. Unfortunately, I have not been able to talk to the man both my mother and wife match to find out what he knows about his ancestry.
In the early 1990’s I went with my mother to visit her mother’s cousin. My mother mentioned to him that I was collecting family history information on my father’s side, and the man said we had a very interesting family history on my mother’s side also. He could not read or write (although he ran a successful business), but from his sharp memory he told me what he knew about our ancestry. What he said about one line in particular stuck in my mind. It was his patrilineal line the GRAYs. He explained that the Grays were really Grahams and that my mother’s great grandfather, James T. Gray, changed the family surname when he relocated from Union Co., KY, to Hancock Co., KY (I have found records which verify his statement). In tracing the line he told me he had been able to learn that my mother’s second great grandfather Isaac Jasper Graham had married an Elizabeth Collins. He said she was from the Cumberland Gap, and he recalled Newman Ridge being mentioned in connection with her. That was as far back as he had been able to go with the line.
Last week, my mother, my daughter, and I all matched the same lady. This lady has about 35 African segments (about seven percent African ancestry) and about 21 “Asian” (likely American Indian) segments which is about two percent “Asian” ancestry (see the fourth screenshot).
I called our new match and she told me that her Collins line had intermarried with the Goins family, and that her grandfather said the Goins line was African American. Looking on sites with information about Melungeon ancestry, I see Collins, Graham, and Goins are all surnames found in Melungeon histories. I also learned that Newman Ridge is in Hancock Co., TN (not to be confused with Hancock Co., KY).
I do not think anyone in our families (on either side) would have believed we could have an African segment and no one would believe we could have Melungeon ancestry. I doubt anyone in our family would know what Melungeon is.
From talking to the woman I learned there are two possibilities for who our Elizabeth was. One of the Elizabeth’s would have been too young to be ours, so that leaves the second one. Thanks to 23andMe’s Relative Finder, with more research I should be able to document the source of my mother's African segment. We will have learned something new about our ancestry from our DNA.
Next, I have to figure out how my wife’s family ties in. Finding people who share a common ancestor with both my mother and my wife is very interesting. Knowing the common ancestry appears to be Melungeon ancestry will really generate some conversation at the next family reunion.
The 4th cousin of our match is awaiting her 23andMe results. I hope she matches at least one person in my family and the man my wife and mother match. It would be good to get another link. I suspect as the database grows at 23andMe, and especially if they provide project management tools, we will be able to answer many family history questions (and discover many new things about our shared ancestry).
Saturday, November 7, 2009
Ebenezer "Eben" Vick
In Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants John D. Beatty and Di Ann Vick wrote on page 380 that Ebenezer “Eben” Vick might be a descendant of either John4 (Benjamin3, Robert2, Joseph1) or Benjamin3’s son Josiah4. Eben was born on 31 Mar 1792, in North Carolina, and died on 27 Feb 1860, in Logan County, Kentucky.
The authors also said on page 381 “Some have even suggested that Eben was the illegitimate son of Presley Nelms and an unknown Vick woman. That seems extremely unlikely. Not only have no bastardy bonds been found in North Carolina to support this assertion, but, more importantly, if he were illegitimate, naming his children after the Nelms would flaunt his illegitimacy before both his wife and his middle-class associates…proof of Eben’s parentage will probably never be found.”
The one thing a Y-DNA test can do is show whether two men share a recent common patrilineal ancestor. A descendant of Eben’s son Presely William VICK had his Y-DNA tested at Family Tree DNA. The results showed that this descendant did not have Joseph1’s Y-DNA signature and that he did not share a common patrilineal ancestor with the proven Joseph1 descendants for thousands of years. Recently, a descendant of Eben’s son James Council also had his Y-DNA tested. His results also show that his line does not share a common patrilineal ancestor with the proven Joseph1 descendants for thousands of years. So it is highly likely that none of Eben’s descendants are patrilineal descendants of Joseph1.
Another descendant of Eben’s son Presley William has submitted a DNA sample for testing as part of the VICK and Allied Families DNA Project at 23andMe. His results might shed some light on whether an “unknown Vick woman” was Eben’s mother.
If you are a male VICK and you are interested in joining our VICK Y-DNA Surname Project (or know one who is interested in joining), Family Tree DNA has just announced its Holiday Sale. You can take advantage of FTDNA’s reduced prices for surname project participants by ordering at this link
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Vick
FTDNA says “Our Holiday Season promotion will bring back the discount that we offered this summer for the Y-DNA37, since this has been requested by many of our project administrators.
Y-DNA37 – promotion price $119 (reg. price $149)
Y-DNA67 – promotional price $209 (reg. price $239)”
Hopefully, 23andMe will also announce a holiday sale for those who would like to be tested as part of our VICK and Allied Families DNA Project at 23andMe.
The authors also said on page 381 “Some have even suggested that Eben was the illegitimate son of Presley Nelms and an unknown Vick woman. That seems extremely unlikely. Not only have no bastardy bonds been found in North Carolina to support this assertion, but, more importantly, if he were illegitimate, naming his children after the Nelms would flaunt his illegitimacy before both his wife and his middle-class associates…proof of Eben’s parentage will probably never be found.”
The one thing a Y-DNA test can do is show whether two men share a recent common patrilineal ancestor. A descendant of Eben’s son Presely William VICK had his Y-DNA tested at Family Tree DNA. The results showed that this descendant did not have Joseph1’s Y-DNA signature and that he did not share a common patrilineal ancestor with the proven Joseph1 descendants for thousands of years. Recently, a descendant of Eben’s son James Council also had his Y-DNA tested. His results also show that his line does not share a common patrilineal ancestor with the proven Joseph1 descendants for thousands of years. So it is highly likely that none of Eben’s descendants are patrilineal descendants of Joseph1.
Another descendant of Eben’s son Presley William has submitted a DNA sample for testing as part of the VICK and Allied Families DNA Project at 23andMe. His results might shed some light on whether an “unknown Vick woman” was Eben’s mother.
If you are a male VICK and you are interested in joining our VICK Y-DNA Surname Project (or know one who is interested in joining), Family Tree DNA has just announced its Holiday Sale. You can take advantage of FTDNA’s reduced prices for surname project participants by ordering at this link
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Vick
FTDNA says “Our Holiday Season promotion will bring back the discount that we offered this summer for the Y-DNA37, since this has been requested by many of our project administrators.
Y-DNA37 – promotion price $119 (reg. price $149)
Y-DNA67 – promotional price $209 (reg. price $239)”
Hopefully, 23andMe will also announce a holiday sale for those who would like to be tested as part of our VICK and Allied Families DNA Project at 23andMe.
Thursday, October 29, 2009
More Success in Our VICK and Allied Families DNA Project
We have a second descendant of our immigrant ancestor Joseph VICK who has 23andMe test results that match the STRICKLAND descendant mentioned my last blog. The first match is a descendant of Joseph2's daughter Patience while the second match is a descendant of Joseph2's son Matthew. Like with the first match, we will compare pedigrees and see if there is another shared line that could account for this match. Joseph2 is the son of Joseph1 (the immigrant born circa 1640-1650).
The second match was also in 23andMe’s Relative Finder’s “Distant Cousin” category, but he didn’t even rate a range for possible cousins. This second match had one shared segment and .13 percent shared DNA.
The first match was also predicted as a “Distant Cousin” but with a range of 9th to 10th cousin, one shared DNA segment, and .16 percent shared DNA.
This adds more hope that by testing more patrilineal descendants of Joseph2 in our FamilyTree DNA VICK Y-DNA Surname Project that we can find a match for the two male STRICKLANDs.
The second match was also in 23andMe’s Relative Finder’s “Distant Cousin” category, but he didn’t even rate a range for possible cousins. This second match had one shared segment and .13 percent shared DNA.
The first match was also predicted as a “Distant Cousin” but with a range of 9th to 10th cousin, one shared DNA segment, and .16 percent shared DNA.
This adds more hope that by testing more patrilineal descendants of Joseph2 in our FamilyTree DNA VICK Y-DNA Surname Project that we can find a match for the two male STRICKLANDs.
Sunday, October 25, 2009
Early Potential Success at 23andMe for the Vick and Allied Families DNA Project
While our VICK Y-DNA Surname Project participants almost all test at FamilyTree DNA we found a couple of matches at the old Relative Genetics (now Ancestry DNA) who didn't have the VICK surname. These two men did have the same surname and matching Y-DNA signatures. The two men didn’t match other men with their surname in their Relative Genetics project. Because our VICK ancestor’s Y-DNA signature (haplotype) is fairly rare (we are haplogroup Q1a3*) we were reasonably confident these two men's patrilineal ancestor was a VICK (their research can't extend their line in a county with many VICKs around the time of their ancestor’s birth in 1810). We ran into a problem trying to figure out which of our VICK ancestor’s sons these two men were descended from. They didn’t have enough markers to isolate a line and Relative Genetics didn’t test all of the markers that are branch informative for the VICKs. Compounding the problem was that the two men didn't want to submit new samples for testing at FTDNA. So, we seemed to be at a dead end.
When 23andMe came along we thought 23andMe was worth at try. We looked for someone to test in the two men's line so we could compare their results with the VICKs in our 23andMe project. The nice thing about 23andMe was that we could test women who were descendants of our VICK ancestor and non-patrilineal male VICK descendants. We weren't limited to male VICKs.
While we still have to go through the pedigrees and ensure we can find no other explanation, I still have to smile when I look at our 23andMe match of a non-patrilineal male VICK with a female descendant of the two men's line.
This match at least makes me see that 23andMe has promise. By the way, the match was in the “Distant Cousin” category for those who are looking at them at 23andMe and wondering about how useful they may be. The predicted range was 9th to 10th cousin, which could well be correct. We haven't had a match between two project members who are so distantly related in the VICK line.
When 23andMe came along we thought 23andMe was worth at try. We looked for someone to test in the two men's line so we could compare their results with the VICKs in our 23andMe project. The nice thing about 23andMe was that we could test women who were descendants of our VICK ancestor and non-patrilineal male VICK descendants. We weren't limited to male VICKs.
While we still have to go through the pedigrees and ensure we can find no other explanation, I still have to smile when I look at our 23andMe match of a non-patrilineal male VICK with a female descendant of the two men's line.
This match at least makes me see that 23andMe has promise. By the way, the match was in the “Distant Cousin” category for those who are looking at them at 23andMe and wondering about how useful they may be. The predicted range was 9th to 10th cousin, which could well be correct. We haven't had a match between two project members who are so distantly related in the VICK line.
Saturday, October 3, 2009
Vick and Allied Families DNA Project Is Digging for Roots
On October 3, 2009, the Vick and Allied Families DNA Project had 43 members. That was a far better start than I expected. We will have a few more project members in the next week as we confirm that others also ordered kits.
Of the 43 project members, we know the Vick lines of 25 (12 project members are spouses or do not have a Vick line). Two other project members come from lines (Ezekiel Strickland and Barry Holland) which Y-DNA testing shows are very likely descended from Joseph. An additional two members may have an unproven Vick female ancestor. Further, two project members are descended from a Strickland line that does not share a Y-DNA signature with the Joseph Vick descendants. The Stricklands and the Vicks have many family connections.
Ten of this project’s members are also members of the VICK Y-DNA Surname Project, and they share Joseph’s Y-DNA signature. Having a confirmed Y-DNA match will be beneficial in making comparisons to closely related members (male and female).
We are using a company named 23andMe for our testing in this project since the company we use for our VICK Y-DNA Surname Project does not offer this type of testing. 23andMe has a new tool called “Relative Finder” that I am beta testing. Relative Finder will be very useful.
Relative Finder has two parts. The first part finds expected relatives in the 23andMe database. The second part allows you to send a share request to a match but you won't know the person's identity unless your share request is accepted.
At the moment I can see "matches" in the 23andMe database (although I don't have access to their identity unless they are already sharing with me). For each match Relative Finder shows me the number of shared segments and % of Shared DNA, as well as the mitochondrial haplogroup and Y haplogroup (for a male).
Relative Finder predicts the degree of relationship. I was surprised at how many matches I found using Relative Finder. I really didn’t expect many since I didn’t know of any cousin (at least one in a genealogical timeframe) who had tested at 23andMe and had results. Relative Finder puts matches in one of several buckets: “Parent or Child” (my mother, my son, and my daughter were there as I expected); “Sibling (my son and daughter show in that category on each other’s lists). Relative Finder has other buckets (like “Aunt/Uncle, Nephew or Niece;” and “Grandparent, Grandchild, or Half Sibling”) and various degrees of cousins. While Relative Finder gives the expected degree of cousin, e.g. second cousin, there is a window each could fall into, e.g. third to tenth cousin. Relative Finder found I matched what appeared to be two fourth cousins, one fifth cousin, two sixth cousins, two seventh cousins, and 224 “distant cousins.”
I hadn’t noticed that one of the “distant” cousins and I had a common stretch of DNA even though we were already sharing. When you share with a lot of people, it can be hard to keep up with those that get their results after they ask to share. You can then miss the fact that they match. Relative Finder is a nice tool for checking periodically for this situation and for getting an idea of how closely related you are.
Finding these distant cousin matches could be helpful in determining the birth surname of some of the females in our pedigrees (unfortunately, we don’t know many females birth surnames, especially if they were born before the 1850 census). While Relative Finder may be helpful in tracing these female lines, it will be a lot of work for both parties to try to figure out who they inherited their common data stretch from.
Since not everyone who tested at 23andMe is interested in ancestry, some of the unexpected matches may not want to share. Some of these matches probably tested for health risk information and not to find relatives. Still, we might find a few people who are interested in sharing even if it isn’t their primary reason for testing at 23andMe.
For my mother Relative Finder found one “Parent or Child” (me); two “Grandparent, Grandchild or Half Sibling (my son and daughter); one third cousins, five fourth cousins, four fifth cousins, and 201 “Distant Cousins.”
Unlike with our Y-DNA project where it doesn't make much sense to test two closely related men, I can see from the Relative Finder beta results that testing even full siblings will be beneficial. Siblings can have some very different matches. While my son and daughter have five shared matches, my son has eight matches that my daughter doesn't have. My daughter has six matches that my son doesn't have. I haven't tried to sort out the "distant cousin" matches, but I bet I would find the same story. It is possible some of the differences might turn up in the "distant cousin" category.
In the next three weeks we should begin to have results. We will then get a better idea of how our project is progressing.
Of the 43 project members, we know the Vick lines of 25 (12 project members are spouses or do not have a Vick line). Two other project members come from lines (Ezekiel Strickland and Barry Holland) which Y-DNA testing shows are very likely descended from Joseph. An additional two members may have an unproven Vick female ancestor. Further, two project members are descended from a Strickland line that does not share a Y-DNA signature with the Joseph Vick descendants. The Stricklands and the Vicks have many family connections.
Ten of this project’s members are also members of the VICK Y-DNA Surname Project, and they share Joseph’s Y-DNA signature. Having a confirmed Y-DNA match will be beneficial in making comparisons to closely related members (male and female).
We are using a company named 23andMe for our testing in this project since the company we use for our VICK Y-DNA Surname Project does not offer this type of testing. 23andMe has a new tool called “Relative Finder” that I am beta testing. Relative Finder will be very useful.
Relative Finder has two parts. The first part finds expected relatives in the 23andMe database. The second part allows you to send a share request to a match but you won't know the person's identity unless your share request is accepted.
At the moment I can see "matches" in the 23andMe database (although I don't have access to their identity unless they are already sharing with me). For each match Relative Finder shows me the number of shared segments and % of Shared DNA, as well as the mitochondrial haplogroup and Y haplogroup (for a male).
Relative Finder predicts the degree of relationship. I was surprised at how many matches I found using Relative Finder. I really didn’t expect many since I didn’t know of any cousin (at least one in a genealogical timeframe) who had tested at 23andMe and had results. Relative Finder puts matches in one of several buckets: “Parent or Child” (my mother, my son, and my daughter were there as I expected); “Sibling (my son and daughter show in that category on each other’s lists). Relative Finder has other buckets (like “Aunt/Uncle, Nephew or Niece;” and “Grandparent, Grandchild, or Half Sibling”) and various degrees of cousins. While Relative Finder gives the expected degree of cousin, e.g. second cousin, there is a window each could fall into, e.g. third to tenth cousin. Relative Finder found I matched what appeared to be two fourth cousins, one fifth cousin, two sixth cousins, two seventh cousins, and 224 “distant cousins.”
I hadn’t noticed that one of the “distant” cousins and I had a common stretch of DNA even though we were already sharing. When you share with a lot of people, it can be hard to keep up with those that get their results after they ask to share. You can then miss the fact that they match. Relative Finder is a nice tool for checking periodically for this situation and for getting an idea of how closely related you are.
Finding these distant cousin matches could be helpful in determining the birth surname of some of the females in our pedigrees (unfortunately, we don’t know many females birth surnames, especially if they were born before the 1850 census). While Relative Finder may be helpful in tracing these female lines, it will be a lot of work for both parties to try to figure out who they inherited their common data stretch from.
Since not everyone who tested at 23andMe is interested in ancestry, some of the unexpected matches may not want to share. Some of these matches probably tested for health risk information and not to find relatives. Still, we might find a few people who are interested in sharing even if it isn’t their primary reason for testing at 23andMe.
For my mother Relative Finder found one “Parent or Child” (me); two “Grandparent, Grandchild or Half Sibling (my son and daughter); one third cousins, five fourth cousins, four fifth cousins, and 201 “Distant Cousins.”
Unlike with our Y-DNA project where it doesn't make much sense to test two closely related men, I can see from the Relative Finder beta results that testing even full siblings will be beneficial. Siblings can have some very different matches. While my son and daughter have five shared matches, my son has eight matches that my daughter doesn't have. My daughter has six matches that my son doesn't have. I haven't tried to sort out the "distant cousin" matches, but I bet I would find the same story. It is possible some of the differences might turn up in the "distant cousin" category.
In the next three weeks we should begin to have results. We will then get a better idea of how our project is progressing.
Monday, September 21, 2009
The Vick and Allied Families DNA Project
After my last blog I realized we should rename our new DNA project. We are now calling it the VICK and Allied Families DNA Project. I should also say that while we would like to have members of every VICK clan in our project, so far all of the project members are descendants of Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia (Joseph1), or an allied family (or both). Among the allied families in our project are the STRICKLANDs, the JOYNERs, and the HOLLANDs.
The STRICKLANDs have a deep history with the VICKs that goes back to Isle of Wight County. In Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants the authors noted several associations among the VICKs and the STRICKLANDs. For example, on pages 62 and 63 of the book when discussing Robert3 (Robert2, Joseph1) the authors say “From the probable ages of his sons, it seems likely that Robert married twice. A glance at the names associated with his many land transactions will suggest his close association with the Strickland and Taylor families, with whom there may have been some relationship…Mathew STRICKLAND had daughters Sarah, Ann, Elizabeth and Jane all of whom were unmarried at the time of his death and of whom Elizabeth and Jane remain untraced.
We have two STRICKLAND descendants in our project. One is a descendant of Ezekiel STRICKLAND who was born about 1809, probably in North Carolina. Apparently, there is a brick wall at Ezekiel in tracing this line back. Two men who are descendants of Ezekiel have been Y-DNA tested. Their Y-DNA signature (haplotype) matches the signature of the descendants of Joseph1. On the other hand, the Y-DNA signature of the Ezekiel descendants does not match the signature of other southern STRICKLAND men. The match of the Ezekiel STRICKLAND descendants with the Joseph1 descendants may indicate that this branch of the STRICKLAND family descends from Joseph1.
The other STRICKLAND in our project descends from Matthew STRICKLAND (born about 1732 in North Carolina). Because the Y-DNA signature of the two STRICKLAND clans is so different, these two clans cannot have shared a common patrilineal ancestor in a genealogical time period (they are not even in the same haplogroup). However, the two STRICKLAND clans could share “recent” ancestry through a non-patrilineal line. Perhaps we will find something in our project that ties the two branches together.
The HOLLAND member of our project is a descendant of Berry HOLLAND, born 4 Jun 1840 in North Carolina. Barry's line also has not been able to be extended. However, his descendants' Y-DNA signature also matches that of the descendants of Joseph1. So there is good reason to believe that Berry may also have been a patrilineal descendant of Joseph1. More precisely, these HOLLANDs match the Y-DNA signature of Joseph1's son Robert.
In Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants, there are several references to the VICKs and the HOLLANDs . On page 24 when discussing Sarah3 (Joseph2, Joseph1) it says "SARAH, b. ca. 1718; d. after 1784 in Southampton County, Virginia. She m. JAMES GARDNER ca. 1740 in Southampton County…James and Sarah lived in the vicinity of Cypress Swamp…Children surnamed GARDNER: …5. Juda (m. Thomas Holland)….
On page 460 when discussing Robert5 (Robert 4, ?Isaac3, William2, Joseph1) the book says his probable son “REDDIN, b. ca. 1798 [probably in NC]; m. CHARLOTTE HOLLAND."
Finally, we are also very fortunate to have a JOYNER in our project. The JOYNERs also have a long relationship with the VICKs that goes back to Isle of Wight County, Virginia. Our project member is a descendant of Moses JOYNER and Patience VICK (Joseph2, Joseph1). Now have at least one descendant of each of Joseph1’s sons; however, I am not aware of any project member who is a descendant of Joseph1’s daughter Lucy.
One of things we need in our project is the shortest possible line back to Joseph1, and our JOYNER has that distinction so far. He is in the eighth generation of Joseph1’s line. While we have some sixth cousins in our project, most are seventh or eighth cousins. We need some third, fourth, and fifth cousins to increase our chances of weaving common DNA blocks (or half identical regions) into a quilt of shared ancestry. We will have to work on this weakness. Once the 23andMe beta discount period expires, it will probably be harder to attract new project members.
The STRICKLANDs have a deep history with the VICKs that goes back to Isle of Wight County. In Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants the authors noted several associations among the VICKs and the STRICKLANDs. For example, on pages 62 and 63 of the book when discussing Robert3 (Robert2, Joseph1) the authors say “From the probable ages of his sons, it seems likely that Robert married twice. A glance at the names associated with his many land transactions will suggest his close association with the Strickland and Taylor families, with whom there may have been some relationship…Mathew STRICKLAND had daughters Sarah, Ann, Elizabeth and Jane all of whom were unmarried at the time of his death and of whom Elizabeth and Jane remain untraced.
We have two STRICKLAND descendants in our project. One is a descendant of Ezekiel STRICKLAND who was born about 1809, probably in North Carolina. Apparently, there is a brick wall at Ezekiel in tracing this line back. Two men who are descendants of Ezekiel have been Y-DNA tested. Their Y-DNA signature (haplotype) matches the signature of the descendants of Joseph1. On the other hand, the Y-DNA signature of the Ezekiel descendants does not match the signature of other southern STRICKLAND men. The match of the Ezekiel STRICKLAND descendants with the Joseph1 descendants may indicate that this branch of the STRICKLAND family descends from Joseph1.
The other STRICKLAND in our project descends from Matthew STRICKLAND (born about 1732 in North Carolina). Because the Y-DNA signature of the two STRICKLAND clans is so different, these two clans cannot have shared a common patrilineal ancestor in a genealogical time period (they are not even in the same haplogroup). However, the two STRICKLAND clans could share “recent” ancestry through a non-patrilineal line. Perhaps we will find something in our project that ties the two branches together.
The HOLLAND member of our project is a descendant of Berry HOLLAND, born 4 Jun 1840 in North Carolina. Barry's line also has not been able to be extended. However, his descendants' Y-DNA signature also matches that of the descendants of Joseph1. So there is good reason to believe that Berry may also have been a patrilineal descendant of Joseph1. More precisely, these HOLLANDs match the Y-DNA signature of Joseph1's son Robert.
In Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants, there are several references to the VICKs and the HOLLANDs . On page 24 when discussing Sarah3 (Joseph2, Joseph1) it says "SARAH, b. ca. 1718; d. after 1784 in Southampton County, Virginia. She m. JAMES GARDNER ca. 1740 in Southampton County…James and Sarah lived in the vicinity of Cypress Swamp…Children surnamed GARDNER: …5. Juda (m. Thomas Holland)….
On page 460 when discussing Robert5 (Robert 4, ?Isaac3, William2, Joseph1) the book says his probable son “REDDIN, b. ca. 1798 [probably in NC]; m. CHARLOTTE HOLLAND."
Finally, we are also very fortunate to have a JOYNER in our project. The JOYNERs also have a long relationship with the VICKs that goes back to Isle of Wight County, Virginia. Our project member is a descendant of Moses JOYNER and Patience VICK (Joseph2, Joseph1). Now have at least one descendant of each of Joseph1’s sons; however, I am not aware of any project member who is a descendant of Joseph1’s daughter Lucy.
One of things we need in our project is the shortest possible line back to Joseph1, and our JOYNER has that distinction so far. He is in the eighth generation of Joseph1’s line. While we have some sixth cousins in our project, most are seventh or eighth cousins. We need some third, fourth, and fifth cousins to increase our chances of weaving common DNA blocks (or half identical regions) into a quilt of shared ancestry. We will have to work on this weakness. Once the 23andMe beta discount period expires, it will probably be harder to attract new project members.
Monday, September 14, 2009
We Have Started Our New VICK DNA 23andMe Project
We have started our new VICK DNA project at 23andMe. We probably should have called it VICK and Allied Lines DNA Project. The idea of a surname project is new to 23andMe, and we may be their first (I have not heard anyone discuss another one). That could be great because they may need a “large” group with pedigrees to help them figure out how to link people together through shared DNA.
We have people in our project who are descended from four of Joseph of Isle of Wight County, Virginia’s five sons – Richard, John, Robert, and William. So in that clan we are just missing Joseph2’s line. So far none of the other VICK clans have joined.
Eighteen or nineteen kits have been ordered (that includes five kits for spouses or mothers who do not have a known VICK line). We have seven members who are part of our Y-DNA project, so they should be very helpful. One nice thing is we have two men and five women who have VICK lines but could not test in our VICK Y-DNA project. So we are extending our reach into VICK DNA.
We are also trying to interest STRICKLANDs and HOLLANDs in joining our project. Any allied lines would be helpful.
We have people in our project who are descended from four of Joseph of Isle of Wight County, Virginia’s five sons – Richard, John, Robert, and William. So in that clan we are just missing Joseph2’s line. So far none of the other VICK clans have joined.
Eighteen or nineteen kits have been ordered (that includes five kits for spouses or mothers who do not have a known VICK line). We have seven members who are part of our Y-DNA project, so they should be very helpful. One nice thing is we have two men and five women who have VICK lines but could not test in our VICK Y-DNA project. So we are extending our reach into VICK DNA.
We are also trying to interest STRICKLANDs and HOLLANDs in joining our project. Any allied lines would be helpful.
Friday, September 11, 2009
The Great Family of Joseph Vick Before 1675 to 1987 May Be Reprinted
In an earlier blog I asked if there were any good Vick family history books or short histories about the Vick families other than those I listed in the blog. While I have not learned of any new books or short histories, I have learned that Conner Vick is interested in republishing The Great Family of Joseph Vick Before 1675 to 1987. The authors of the book were his father, Samuel B. Vick, Sr., his brother Samuel B. Vick, Jr., and his sister Lorrayne Vick Donnell. Conner is exploring ways to have the book reprinted. If you would like a copy of the book, you might write him at the address below to let him know of your interest. He is trying to determine how many books to print.
Conner Vick
7329 Pope Watervalley Road
Pope, Mississippi 38658
Conner does not have an estimated printing date or price since he has not finalized the details.
Conner Vick
7329 Pope Watervalley Road
Pope, Mississippi 38658
Conner does not have an estimated printing date or price since he has not finalized the details.
Tuesday, April 28, 2009
Place Name Index for Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants
Joseph Vick of Lower Parish, Isle of Wight County, Virginia and His Descendants by John D. Beatty and Di Ann Vick is an indispensable reference I use for tracing Joseph's descendants. One thing I wish the book had, though, is a place name index. When Americans contact me with a question about their Vick line they usually include at least one reference to a location where their Vick ancestors lived. If their Vick ancestors lived in the southern U.S. the chances are excellent that they were descendants of Joseph.
Not being able to find easily the pages in the book where a location is mentioned slows down my search for how the person fits in the Vick family tree. To solve this problem, I have started putting together an index of place names in the book. The index should be ready in time for the July 2009 Vick Family Newsletter. If there is enough space in the newsletter I will include it in that issue. If there is not enough space in the July issue (because of the news from the reunion) I will put it in the October 2009 issue. So if you would like a copy of the index, it will be available soon.
Now, if I could just find some good reference books for the other Vick families.
Not being able to find easily the pages in the book where a location is mentioned slows down my search for how the person fits in the Vick family tree. To solve this problem, I have started putting together an index of place names in the book. The index should be ready in time for the July 2009 Vick Family Newsletter. If there is enough space in the newsletter I will include it in that issue. If there is not enough space in the July issue (because of the news from the reunion) I will put it in the October 2009 issue. So if you would like a copy of the index, it will be available soon.
Now, if I could just find some good reference books for the other Vick families.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
Posts
